>> NOW TO SUDAN, WHERE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO SURVIVE ON JUST ONE MEAL A DAY ACCORDING TO A NEW REPORT PUBLISHED BY HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATIONS SAYING MANY PEOPLE HAVE RESORTED TO EATING ANIMAL FEED.

TJADA D'OYEN McKENNA JOINED HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS THAT REPORT AND WHAT SHE WITNESSED ON A RECENT TRIP THERE.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

TJADA D'OYEN McKENNA OF MERCY CORPS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU RECENTLY JUST RETURNED FROM SUDAN.

I WANT TO POINT OUT SOME OF THE GRIM MILESTONE NUMBERS THAT YOUR ORGANIZATION MERCY CORPS RELEASED IN A RECENT REPORT.

IT SAID 15 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE HAD TO FLEE THEIR HOMES.

YOU SAY ABOUT TWICE THAT NUMBER, ALMOST 30 MILLION PEOPLE ARE IN NEED OF SOME SORT OF HUMANITARIAN AID, WHICH MAKES THIS THE WORST HUMANITARIAN AID CRISIS ON THE PLANET AT THE MOMENT JUST BY SHEER NUMBERS.

WHAT DID YOU SEE ON YOUR MOST RECENT VISIT?

WHAT ARE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU SPOKE TO TELLING YOU?

>> WHAT WE SAW IS CIVILIANS WHO ARE ENTERING YEAR FOUR OF THIS CONFLICT.

SEVERAL PEOPLE TOLD ME STORIES OF HAVING TO FLEE MORE THAN ONCE TO DIFFERENT AREAS TO GET AWAY FROM CONFLICT.

AND THAT FLEEING, ONE OF OUR OWN STAFF MEMBERS TOLD ME SHE WAS WALKING BY FOOT FOR 21 DAYS, RIGHT.

AND THAT 21 DAYS, YOU'RE DODGING CONFLICT.

YOU'RE DODGING ROBBERS, YOU'RE LOOKING FOR FOOD, YOU'RE LOOKING FOR SUSTENANCE.

THE SUDANESE PEOPLE ARE QUITE RESILIENT AND ARE WORKING TO HELP THEMSELVES, BUT THEY'RE REALLY STRUGGLING WITH LACK OF AVAILABILITY OF FOOD, DISPLACED FAMILY MEMBERS.

PEOPLE HAVEN'T SEEN SOME OF THEIR FAMILIES IN MULTIPLE YEARS AS PEOPLE HAVE FLED HERE AND THERE.

AND REALLY TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING AND KEEPING THINGS GOING AS THIS CONFLICT GRINDS ON AND ON.

>> SO WHAT'S THE MOST PRESSING NEED RIGHT NOW?

I SUPPOSE IT'S PROBABLY DEPENDENT ON LOCATION THAT YOU TALK ABOUT.

BUT IS IT HEALTH CARE?

IS IT FOOD?

IS IT SHELTER?

>> A LOT OF THE SYSTEMS THAT CIVILIANS RELY ON TO LIVE HAVE BEEN DECIMATED AND DELIBERATELY ATTACKED DURING THIS CONFLICT.

WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM PEOPLE CLOSEST TO THE CONFLICT LINES ARE THAT HEALTH CARE, HEALTH CARE FACILITIES HAVE BEEN SYSTEMATICALLY DESTROYED.

SO THERE IS VERY LITTLE HEALTH CARE.

ALSO, THIS IS A SEVERE FOOD CRISIS.

SUDAN IS AN AGRICULTURAL PRODUCING NATION.

WE HAVE TURNED AGRICULTURAL FIELDS INTO BATTLEFIELDS.

THE CLOSER YOU ARE TO THE CONFLICT, THE FOOD YOU'RE EATING HAS HAD TO CROSS BATTLE LINES.

RIGHT NOW PARTICULARLY WITH THE WAR IN IRAN, FUEL PRICES ARE UP OVER 35%.

YOU NEED FUEL FOR GENERATORS, FOR ANY AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION.

IT'S PLANTING SEASON RIGHT NOW.

FERTILIZER, THEY RELY ON FERTILIZER AND OTHER SUPPLIES COMING IN THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

AND ALL THOSE FUEL PRICES INCREASES ROCKET THROUGH SOCIETY.

SO IT'S FOOD PRICES.

IT'S EVERYTHING THEY NEED TO DO IS NOW MORE EXPENSIVE.

SO THIS REALLY IS A CATASTROPHE THAT CONTINUES TO PILE ON FOR THE PEOPLE OF SUDAN.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS KIND OF RIPPLE EFFECT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FERTILIZER COSTS AND FUEL COSTS, THIS IS SORT OF AN AMERICAN FRAME, BUT MOST OF THE IMAGERY WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH SUDAN, AT LEAST IN THE RECENT PAST IS A WAR-TORN LAND.

AND WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING IS THERE WAS ACTUALLY AND IS AGRICULTURAL POTENTIAL, AND THERE WERE AND ARE SORT OF CROPS THAT ARE BEING GROWN THERE.

>> YES.

SUDAN IS QUITE A LARGE COUNTRY GEOGRAPHICALLY, AND A LOT OF THE VIOLENCE HAS BEEN LOCALIZED TO CERTAIN AREAS, OR IT HAS MOVED.

SO YOU DO HAVE POCKETS THAT HAVE BEEN RELATIVELY STABLE THROUGH THE WAR.

YOU HAVE POCKETS THAT ARE NEWLY STABLE.

AND SO WHAT YOU HAVE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MOVED TO SECURITY.

WHEN THEY MOVED TO SUDAN, THEY MOVED TO THESE POCKETS OF SECURITY.

SUDAN, THE LARGEST PIECE OF THE ECONOMY IS AGRICULTURE.

PEOPLE DEPEND ON FOOD TO SURVIVE, BUT ALSO FOR INCOME, FOR EXPORTS.

RIGHT NOW WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF PLANTING SEASON.

SO PEOPLE NEED INPUTS.

THEY NEED FERTILIZER.

THEY NEED SEEDS.

THEY NEED TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THOSE THINGS.

AND WITH PRICES UP, THOSE THINGS ARE IN SCARCE SUPPLY.

AND WITH AGRICULTURAL, THERE IS A SMALL WINDOW, TIME FOR THINGS TO HAPPEN.

SO DECISIONS PEOPLE MAKE NOW AFFECT FOOD SECURITY FOR MONTHS, EVEN A YEAR TO COME IN SOME PLACES WHERE THERE IS ONLY ONE CROP CYCLE A SEASON.

SO PEOPLE SHOULD THINK OF IT AS A BIG COUNTRY.

AND PARTICULARLY BEFORE THE WAR, YOU KNOW, WHEN I TALKED TO OUR STAFF, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE THAT WERE LIVING IN KHARTOUM, THE WHOLE CITY HAD TO FLEE WHEN IT WAS TAKEN DOWN.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE GOING TO UNIVERSITY, WHO HAD JOBS, QUITE COSMOPOLITAN.

USED TO GOING TO RESTAURANTS EVERY NIGHT.

THE FAMILY IS FORCED TO FLEE IN ALL DIRECTIONS.

AND WHAT YOU STILL HAVE IN PARTS OF SUDAN ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE WORKING TO MAKE A LIVING THAT ARE PROVIDING A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DISPLACED WHO ARE PROVIDING INCOME FOR THEIR RELATIVES STILL IN CONFLICT AREAS.

AND PEOPLE TRY TO REUNITE THEIR FAMILIES AND DETERMINE HOW TO SURVIVE AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO AS THIS CONFLICT GRINDS ON.

>> SO IF I'M A FARMER AND THE COST OF RUNNING MY TRACTOR JUST INCREASED SIGNIFICANTLY BECAUSE THE FUEL IS NOT FLOWING THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ AND IT'S GOTTEN MORE EXPENSIVE, IF THE PRICE OF FERTILIZER, WHICH I NEED FOR THIS PLANTING SEASON IS MORE EXPENSIVE BECAUSE HALF OF THAT COMES THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ, DO I GIVE UP ON THIS CROP SEASON?

WHO ABSORBS THE COST?

>> IF YOU'RE A FARMER, YOU'RE LIKELY TO NOT GIVE UP BECAUSE THAT IS YOUR INCOME AND YOU NEED SOME OF THAT FOR YOUR FOOD THEMSELVES.

BUT THE SHEEP ECONOMIST OF THE U. S. AGRICULTURE ASSOCIATIONS, FARMERS HAVE A 40-DAY WINDOW WHERE THEY MAKE CHOICES AND DON'T LOOK BACK.

SO EITHER YOU'RE FARMING A SMALLER PIECE OF LAND, OR YOU'RE DECIDING TO GO AHEAD WITH SUBOPTIMAL INPUTS AND HOPING FOR THE BEST.

AND PARTICULARLY WITH FUEL PRICES WHERE YOU MAY NEED SOME OF THAT FUEL TO RUN TRACTORS OR TO RUN YOUR IRRIGATION SYSTEM.

YOU QUITE LITERALLY ARE AT THE MERCY WEATHER AND ALL OTHER KINDS OF THINGS.

SO YOU'RE PLANTING AND HOPING FOR THE BEST.

>> YEAH.

>> IN SOME PIECES WHAT WE'VE SEEN FROM FARMERS WHO ARE CLOSER TO THE CONFLICT, YOU'RE ALSO PRAYING THAT YOU ARE THERE AND HAVE NOT HAD TO FLEE BY THE TIME THE HARVEST COMES.

>> YEAH.

SO WHAT HAPPENS TO THE LONG-TERM INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS TO THIS ECONOMY IF THE IRRIGATION SYSTEMS THAT THE FARMERS DEPEND ON ARE ATTACKED OR BOMBED?

BECAUSE THAT TAKES A LONG TIME TO REBUILD.

>> WE DO NEED TO REBUILD THEM.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IN AREAS THAT ARE KIND OF PAST THE CONFLICT OR WHO HAVE SETTLED IN TO A MORE STABLE DAY TO DAY IS ALREADY THE FUNDS THAT WERE NEEDED FOR EMERGENCY HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE WERE QUITE LOW.

BUT NOW THERE REALLY ARE NO FUNDS FOR WHAT WE CONSIDER LONG-TERM DEVELOPMENTS THAT IS THINGS LIKE REBUILDING IRRIGATION SYSTEMS, REBUILDING CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND YOU STILL HAVE TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TRYING TO LIVE IN THESE PLACES THAT NEED THAT INFRASTRUCTURE.

THEY NEED THE IRRIGATION.

THEY NEED FUNCTIONING HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

>> YEAH.

>> THEY NEED MARKETS.

THAT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE OF SUDAN ARE ASKING FOR.

THEY'RE SAYING INVEST IN US.

WE ARE COMPETENT.

WE ARE SEE --RESILIENT.

WE'RE NOT LEAVING OUR COUNTRY.

HELP US TO REBUILD.

THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR AT THIS MOMENT.

>> IF SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE FLED, I'M WONDERING IF THE REMAINDER OF THE POPULATION IN SOME AREAS ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE KIND OF LEFT THERE TO HOLD DOWN THE FORT, SO TO SPEAK.

YOU HAVE SOME MEMBERS OF THE FAMILY WHO MIGHT BE LEAVING TO TRY TO GET SOME INCOME SOMEWHERE ELSE TO SEND MONEY BACK.

SO WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT CORE POPULATION WHOSE LEFT ON THE GROUND?

>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M HEARING.

THERE IS SOME FLUIDITY IN TERMS OF PEOPLE COMING BACK OR HOPING THINGS HAVE SETTLED AND TRYING TO GO BACK TO MORE STABLE PLACES.

SOME OF MY OWN STAFF MEMBERS HAVE SAID LOOK, I WAS THE ONE DESIGNATED TO GO WORK, TO GO BRING INCOME BACK.

OR MANY OF MY STAFF MEMBERS ARE HOSTING UPWARDS OF 10, 15 MEMBERS OF THEIR FAMILIES THEMSELVES.

SO THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE THE LIFELINES FOR LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE.

AND THEY ARE PEOPLE THAT REALLY LOVE THEIR COUNTRY AND THAT WANT TO STAY.

THEY WANT TO SEE THEIR RELATIVES WHO HAD TO GO TO OTHER COUNTRIES OR NEIGHBORING CITIES RETURN.

I HAVE YOUNGER STAFF MEMBERS WHO THEY'RE TRYING TO STILL ARRANGE MARRIAGES WITH PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN OTHER PLACES, LIKE PEOPLE THEY'RE HOPEFUL THEY WANT TO MOVE ON.

THEY WANT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES, AND THEY WANT TO REBUILD, AND THEY'RE ASKING FOR THAT SUPPORT TO TRY TO CONTINUE TO SURVIVE AND THRIVE.

>> I ALSO WANT TO ASK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE SORT OF YOUNGEST VICTIMS OF THIS.

ACCORDING TO A RECENT REPORT FROM UNICEF, MORE THAN 4300 CHILDREN HAVE BEEN KILLED OR MAIMED THIS YEAR ALONE.

AND AN ESTIMATED 4.

2 MILLION CHILDREN ACROSS SUDAN ARE EXPECTED TO SUFFER FROM ACUTE MALNUTRITION.

HOW DOES MERCY CORPS RESPOND TO SOMETHING, A CRISIS LIKE THIS?

>> WOMEN AND CHILDREN ARE ALWAYS THE MOST VULNERABLE IN THESE SITUATIONS, AND SUDAN HAS BEEN NO DIFFERENT.

WHEN YOU'RE ATTACKING HEALTH CARE CENTERS, YOU'RE ATTACKING CHILDREN.

WHEN WE HAVE SITUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE ARE DOWN TO ONE MEAL A DAY, IT'S CHILDREN, ESPECIALLY THE YOUNGEST CHILDREN THAT FEEL THAT MOST ACUTELY.

IN ONE AREA OF DARFUR, OF THE CHILDREN THAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET TO AND MEASURE, MORE THAN 70% WERE SUFFERING SOME EFFECTS OF MALNUTRITION ALREADY.

AND DEPENDING ON THE SEVERITY OF THAT, THAT CAN CAUSE LIKE BRAIN DAMAGE AND OTHER DAMAGE THAT PEOPLE DON'T RECOVER FOR FROM FOR LIFE.

SO WE'RE QUITE WORRIED ABOUT YOUNG PEOPLE, VERY FOCUSED ON MAKING SURE THEY HAVE SAFE SPACES, THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO GO TO SCHOOL WHERE NECESSARY, AND MAKING SURE THAT THEIR FAMILIES HAVE ACCESS TO CASH TO SUPPLY THEIR NEEDS AND TO HELP THEM AND ACCESS TO FOOD AS WELL SO THAT WE'RE NOT -- SO THAT THEY'RE NOT STARVING AND SUFFERING.

>> SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE DISCONCERTING I THINK IS HOW NORMALIZED IT'S BECOME FOR US TO HEAR ABOUT ATTACKS ON CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE.

I KNOW THAT YOU ALSO RECENTLY VISITED UKRAINE.

AND I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S THIS, YOU KNOW, THROUGH-LINE SOMETHING DIFFERENT HAPPENING IN HOW WE PROSECUTE WARS, WHETHER IT'S UKRAINE OR SUDAN OR IRAN.

WE RECENTLY HAD THE U. S. PRESIDENT THREATENING DESALINIZATION PLANTS AND POWER PLAYS --POWER PLANTS AS IF THAT'S NORMAL.

>> WE'RE SADLY ENTERING WHAT I'M CALLING AN ERA OF INDIFFERENCE.

ATTACKS ON INFRASTRUCTURE ARE CONSIDERED WAR CRIMES.

THEY'RE NOT SIGNIFICANT MEANS.

STARTING WITH UKRAINE WARS, WE'RE SEEING INCREASING ATTACKS ON CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE, DELIBERATE ATTACKS ON HOSPITALS IN UKRAINE.

YOU'RE SEEING DELIBERATE ATTACKS EVEN ON LARGE AGRICULTURE FACILITIES, PARTICULARLY NOW IN THIS AREA OF DRONE WARFARE.

THOSE ATTACKS HAVE BECOME EVEN MORE PERSONALIZED AND SPECIFIC TO CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE, WHETHER THEY BE AGRICULTURE AREAS, HOSPITALS, ELECTRICITY SUPPLIES.

AND SO INCREASINGLY, NOT ONLY ARE CIVILIANS BEING TARGETED, BUT THAT THE LIFELINES THAT THEY NEED TO SURVIVE ARE BEING SEEN AS LEGITIMATE TARGETS.

AND THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE.

AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE AS A WORLD NEED TO RECOMMIT TO SAYING THAT THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE AND THAT THESE ARE NOT LEGITIMATE RESULTS RULES OF WAR.

AND WE'RE SEEING THESE PRACTICED BY STATES AS WELL AS ARMED GROUPS.

IT'S UNACCEPTABLE.

>> SO HOW DOES AN ORGANIZATION LIKE YOURS, MERCY CORPS, TRY TO ASSIST WHEN IT'S THESE LARGER STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS THAT YOU'RE HAVING TO OVERCOME AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING TO YOU ARE SAYING LISTEN, I'M A FARMER, BUT THE IRRIGATION SYSTEM JUST GOT BOMBED, AND I NEED MONEY FOR SEED, AND MY FERTILIZER COSTS AND MY FUEL COSTS ARE UP.

WHERE DO YOU BEGIN?

>> YEAH.

ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY STAFF MEMBERS ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE DISPLACED THEMSELVES.

PEOPLE THAT ARE WORKING FOR US IN CITIES WHERE OFTEN THEY'RE NOT FROM, FAR FROM HOME.

SO WHAT WE REALLY LOOK AT THE RESILIENCE AND THE STRENGTH OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE WORK WITH AND TRY TO MIRROR THEM.

WE WORK WITH A LOT OF LOCAL SUDANESE ORGANIZATIONS WHO MAY HAVE ACCESS TO PLACES THAT WE DON'T.

WE ARE TALKING TO THEM ABOUT THEIR INFORMAL NETWORKS AND BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER.

WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE ECONOMIES GOING.

THERE ARE STILL LOCAL MARKETS THAT ARE FUNCTIONING.

WE'RE TRYING TO BALANCE OUT SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

WE DO THAT A LOT THROUGH THE PROVISION OF CASH SO THAT PEOPLE CAN BUY WHAT THEY NEED.

WE ALSO ARE HELPING SMALL BUSINESSES THAT BUY AGRICULTURAL SUPPLIES OR THAT BUY OTHER GOODS TO KEEP THESE MARKETS GOING SO THAT PEOPLE DO HAVE HEALTHY AND SUSTAINABLE WAYS TO MAKE A LIVING AND TO GET THE OTHER SUPPLIES THAT THEY NEED.

SO WE REALLY TRY TO WORK WITH IN THE SYSTEMS THAT EXIST WHILE ALSO DOING OUR BEST TO ADVOCATE IN FOREIGN CAPITALS AND OTHER PLACES FOR PRESSURE TO NOT BE HARMING CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE, TO DO PEACE NEGOTIATIONS, AND TO PROVIDE FUNDS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO HELP THEMSELVES DO THAT BETTER.

PEOPLE OF SUDAN ARE WORKING SO HARD AND SO HARD JUST TO SURVIVE.

AND THEY DESERVE MORE FROM US.

>> IS THERE ANY HOPE OF THIS WAR, THIS CONFLICT ENDING?

YOU'VE HAD THESE KIND OF DONOR CONVERSATIONS, RECENTLY IN BERLIN, BUT ALSO IN LONDON, PARIS.

THEY SEEM TO BE ON PARALLEL BUT DISTANT TRACKS BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY IN WAR, THE MAIN SIDES, THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY AT THESE TABLES.

>> YEAH.

THERE IS AN OLD SAYING, YOU CAN'T BE FOR US WITHOUT US.

AND OBVIOUSLY THE PEOPLE OF SUDAN NEED TO BE IN THESE CONVERSATIONS.

THE CIVILIANS OF SUDAN NEED TO BE FRONT AND CENTER IN CONSIDERATIONS EAR, BUT ALSO, WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE WHERE THINGS ARE RELATIVELY STABLE, AREAS THAT ARE NO LONGER ACTIVE CONFLICT, WE NEED TO BE SUPPORTING.

WE NEED TO BE SUPPORTING THOSE IN CONFLICT, BUT ALSO THOSE AREAS THAT MAY BE PAST THAT POINT TO BE RESILIENT AND TO THRIVE, TO HELP THE REST OF THE COUNTRY SURVIVE THROUGH THIS CONFLICT.

>> GIVE ME SOME PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT THE KIND OF INTERNATIONAL AID COMMUNITY'S CAPACITY IS BECAUSE, LOOK, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GONE THROUGH DIFFERENT NATURAL DISASTERS.

WE'VE GONE THROUGH DIFFERENT CONFLICTS BEFORE.

BUT RIGHT NOW IT JUST SEEMS LIKE YOU'VE GOT GAZA TO UKRAINE TO LEBANON TO SUDAN.

THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT CRISES, AT LEAST CONFLICTS THAT ARE HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD RIGHT NOW THAT ARE PUTTING SO MUCH PRESSURE ON DIFFERENT POPULATIONS.

ARE WE AT CAPACITY, NEAR CAPACITY?

OVER CAPACITY IN WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT?

>> THE AID SYSTEM HAS REALLY BEEN SEVERELY DISRUPTED AND DEVASTATED.

THE UNITED STATES FUNDING ACCOUNTED FOR MORE THAN 40% OF HUMANITARIAN FUNDING WORLDWIDE.

THAT JUST WASN'T FUNDING.

A LOT OF UNITED STATES WORK WAS UNDERPINNING SUPPLY CHAINS, AND THIS ENTIRE ECOSYSTEM OF ACTORS FROM THE U. N. TO NGOs TO LOCAL NGOs.

THE WAY THAT THE U. S. KIND OF UNILATERALLY PULLED OUT OF THE SYSTEM IN A VERY SUDDEN WAY REALLY UPENDED ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

AND IT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW --ALL OF THOSE CUTS TO THE U. N. SYSTEMS, WE DEPEND ON U. N. AIR SERVICES TO MOVE AROUND IN A LOT OF THESE PLACES THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO REACH.

EVEN DOWN THE SUPPLY CHAINS FOR THINGS LIKE MALNUTRITION, THAT HAS AFFECTED THE WHOLE SYSTEM.

SO YOU HAVE A SYSTEM THAT WAS ALREADY REGROUPING AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO JUST DO DAY TO DAY THINGS WITH LESS FUNDING.

AND WITH LEARNING THE THINGS THAT WERE THERE.

AND THEN ON TOP OF, THAT YOU HAVE CRISIS AFTER CRISIS COMPOUNDING.

SO WHEN THE U. S. PULLED OUT, THEN WE SAW SEVERAL EUROPEAN DONORS ALSO PULLING BACK FUNDS TO FUND THEIR OWN DEFENSE.

>> YEAH.

>> ON TOP OF THAT, WE'VE SEEN ESCALATIONS IN THE WAR IN UKRAINE.

THIS WARFARE IN IRAN, ALL OF THE SUDDEN LEBANON, YOU SEE LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE IN NEED THROUGHOUT THE MIDDLE EAST THAT WERE NOT IN NEED BEFORE.

SO AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE PULLED BACK MONEY FROM THE HUMANITARIAN AID SYSTEM, WE'VE ALSO INCREASED CONFLICTS AND DISRUPTION TO ADD TO THE NUMBER OF THOSE PEOPLE NEEDING ASSISTANCE.

SO THE SYSTEM REALLY DOES NEED TO BE FUNDED, AND WE REALLY NEED MORE EFFORTS TOWARDS PEACE EFFORTS AROUND THE WORLD.

>> YEAH.

>> THAT WE CAN GET TO THE PEOPLE THAT NEED IT THE MOST.

>> I KNOW ONE OF YOUR FORMER JOBS WAS AT USAID AROUND FOOD INSECURITY.

I WONDER IF YOU HAVE KIND OF A BEFORE AND AFTER THAT YOU CAN TELL US OR THINK ABOUT WHERE WHEN YOU WERE IN THAT JOB, WHAT WAS PERHAPS THE ASSISTANCE IN A CRISIS LIKE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN SUDAN VERSUS WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ON THE GROUND TODAY WITHOUT USAID'S PRESENCE.

>> I DID HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF SERVING AT USAID FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

BEFORE IN A CRISIS LIKE THIS, YOU WOULD SEE A LOT MORE OF A DIPLOMATIC EFFORT ON THE GROUND, LIKE A STRONG CADRE OF U. S. AIDE STAFF WHO WERE VERY IN THE KNOW OF WHAT WAS GOING ON FUND AGGRAVATE OF INTERNATIONAL AND LOCAL ACTORS.

YOU SAW A U. N. THAT WAS MUCH MORE ROBUST AND HAD A LOT MORE CAPACITY TO DO COORDINATION SERVICES ACROSS AGENCIES.

AND YOU SAW A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY IN TERMS OF REALLY MEETING PEOPLE'S NEEDS.

RIGHT NOW -- THERE WAS ALSO A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DIPLOMATIC PRESSURE THAT THE PRESENCE OF THE DIPLOMATIC CORPS COULD EXERT ON LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND PEOPLE IN THE CONFLICTS WHO WERE CAUSING IT TO PROTECT CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE AND DO THAT.

NOW NOT ARE YOU NOT SEEING THAT FUNDING BEING THERE, YOU'RE SEEING PEOPLE WHO AREN'T AS AWARE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING, AREN'T AS IN TOUCH WITH THE DIFFERENT ACTORS ON THE GROUND, NOT HELPING PLAY THAT CENTRAL COORDINATION FUNCTION.

AND YOU'RE JUST SEEING A LOT OF PEOPLE STRUGGLING TO SERVE AND LESS OF A SENSE THAT THERE'S --THAT THERE'S A BIT OF A CAVALRY THAT'S ON ITS WAY.

THERE IS A VOID.

AND IT'S FELT.

>> THE CEO OF MERCY CORPS, TJADA D'OYEN McKENNA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

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