COLCOM FOUNDATION, AND THE CHARLES A. FRUEAUFF FOUNDATION.

>> Bonnie: THIS WEEK ON "TO THE CONTRARY": FIRST, SHOULD HARVEY WEINSTEIN GO TO JAIL FOR ASSAULTING WOMEN WHO WENT TO HIS HOTEL ROOM VOLUNTARILY?

THEN, SHOULD TRANSGENDER FEMALE ATHLETES BE ALLOWED TO PLAY GIRLS' SPORTS.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: FOR BLACK HISTORY MONTH WE LOOK AT RACIAL HEALING THROUGH THE EYES OF SOME HIGH PROFILE AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN.

>> Bonnie: HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO b CONTRARY,b AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, WEINSTEIN'S METOO TRIAL : MOVIE MOGUL HARVEY WEINSTEIN'S RAPE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT TRIAL GOES TO THE JURY NEXT WEEK.

IN CLOSING ARGUMENTS HIS LAWYER CALLED ON THE JURY OF SEVEN MEN AND FIVE WOMEN TO HOLD THE WOMEN ACCUSING HIM RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

DONNA ROTUNNO ARGUES THE WOMEN WERE ACTUALLY EMBARRASSED BECAUSE THEY TRIED TO USE WEINSTEIN TO ADVANCE THEIR CAREERS.

WEINSTEIN COULD FACE LIFE IN PRISON IF CONVICTED ON THE FIVE COUNTS OF RAPE, CRIMINAL SEX ACTS, AND PREDATORY SEXUAL ASSAULT.

DOZENS OF WOMEN HAVE ALLEGED SEXUAL MISCONDUCT BY WEINSTEIN.

BUT THIS CASE INVOLVES TWO ACCUSERS.

MIRIAM HALEY SAYS HE FORCED TO HAVE ORAL SEX IN 2006 AND JESSICA MANN CLAIMS HE RAPED HER IN 2013.

WEINSTEIN INSISTS ALL SEXUAL RELATIONS WERE CONSENSUAL.

>> Bonnie: CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON, IS WEINSTEIN'S ATTORNEY TRYING TO REVERSE CURRENT CRIMINAL LAW OR IS HE LIABLE BECAUSE THESE WOMEN CAME TO HIS HOTEL ROOM CONSENSUALLY?

>> WEINSTEIN'S ATTORNEY IS NOT TRYING TO REVERSE CURRENT LAW.

HE IS TRYING TO CHANGE WITH THE WORD CONSENT MEANS.

>> I THINK SHE'S TRYING TO DO HER JOB, WHICH IS IN A HE SAID, SHE SAID SITUATION TO INJECT QUESTIONABLE OTHER FACTS AROUND THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> LOOK, JUST BECAUSE YOU CONSENT TO GO INTO A HOTEL ROOM DOES NOT MEAN YOU CONSENT TO BEING RAPED OR TO HAVE A SQUAD COMMITTED AGAINST YOU.

ABSOLUTELY NO, NO STILL MEANS NO.

>> ALSO, THE POWER DYNAMIC.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD, IF NOT HOLLYWOOD.

THAT SAID, THE DYNAMIC WE HAVE TO BE MINDFUL OF.

>> Bonnie: BUT SHOULDN'T b ÃÃWE WILL TALK ABOUT THE CHILD IN THE RETTICH NEXT WEEK IN A SECOND, BUT SHOULDN'T THE MESSAGE TO YOUNG WOMEN HERE BE DON'T GO TO A HOTEL ROOM AFTER YOU'VE HAD DRINKS AND DINNER WITH A GUY?

>> THERE'S MORE THAN GOING TO A HOTEL ROOM HERE.

WE ARE PUTTING THIS IN WORDS THAT ARE MOST FAVORABLE TO HIM.

THE FACT IS THAT THERE IS FOLLOW-UP OF THESE WOMEN.

DID YOU GET MY PHONE NUMBER?

A GOOD DEFENSE LAWYER CAN MAKE A LOT OF THE REPARTEE BETWEEN THEM.

YES, YOU SHOULD NEVER GO TO A HOTEL ROOM WITH A MAN THAT IS NOT YOUR INTIMATE PARTNER, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT DID IT.

WHAT DID IT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE WAS THE CONTINUING CONTACT.

SOME OF IT INITIATED BY THESE WOMEN.

WEINSTEIN IS NOT IN THE WORST POSSIBLE PLACE IN THIS CASE.

>> Bonnie: BUT DO WE THINK HOW HE WILL DO NEXT WEEK BECAUSE ONE THING WERE TO KNOW ALSO DID THIS GO VERY AGGRESSIVELY AFTER THE VICTIMS, TRYING TO MAKE THEM LOOK REALLY BAD, AND POSSIBILITY THE JURY WILL FEEL b ÃÃWILL NOT LIKE THAT.

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO COME DOWN TO IF THERE'S EVIDENCE.

IT'S A HE SAID, SHE SAID SITUATION.

CAN WE USE b ÃÃCAN THE PROSECUTION PROOF THESE VICTIMS HAVE SOME SORT OF EVIDENCE THAT THESE WOMEN SAID NO IN THE MOMENT?

TO THE LARGER QUESTION ABOUT WHAT ARE WE TEACHING OUR YOUNG WOMEN, WE DO.

YOUR GENERATIONS HAVE ALWAYS TOLD US TO MAKE WISE DECISIONS.

THERE WILL BE A TRADE-OFF BETWEEN WHETHER YOU WANT TO ADVANCE AND WHAT IT MIGHT TAKE TO ADVANCE.

I THINK WE, THE #METOO MOVEMENT AND UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES TO TAKE ALL THE RESPONSIBILITY OFF THE SHOULDERS OF WOMEN IN EVERY SITUATION.

>> I DON'T THINK SO AT ALL.N FACT, JUST BECAUSE YOU EXERCISE POOR JUDGMENT, AND I WOULD AGREE THAT MAYBE IT WAS POOR JUDGMENT, LOOK AT THE POWER DYNAMIC BETWEEN WEINSTEIN AND WHAT THESE WOMEN NEEDED FOR THEIR CAREERS.

BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY DESERVE TO HAVE THEMSELVES FORCED INTO ORAL SEX OR ANY OTHER KIND OF BEHAVIOR.

SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT OR ANOTHER, WE HAVE TO SAY MEN ALSO HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS AND FURTHER DECISIONS VIS-C-VIS WOMEN.

YOU CANNOT USE THE FACT OF THAT POWER, AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AS AN EXCUSE FOR A SEXUAL ASSAULT.

>> THE BURDEN OF PROOF IN EVERY CRIMINAL CASES BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.

AND SO, THAT IS THE ROLE OF THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY, TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THE STATE HAS THE BURDEN OF PROOFF IT DOES NOT REACH TO THAT LEVEL, THAT IS THE ISSUE.

I THINK THAT IS AN ISSUE WHEN IT COMES TO RAPE ALLEGATIONS AND SEXUAL MISCONDUCT.

BUT YOU CANNOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE POWER DYNAMIC THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PROCESS.

>> Bonnie: REPRESENTATIVE EDWARDS, THE LEFT SEEMS TO ME TO HAVE A PROBLEM BY ALLOWING PEOPLE LIKE J-LO ENSHI CARIA, FOR EXAMPLE, A 50-YEAR-OLD WOMAN TO WEAR VERY SCANTILY CLAD CLOTHES BEFORE AN AUDIENCE OF ZILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN FRONT OF THE ONE OF THE MOST WATCHED EVENTS ON TELEVISION AND TORQUE AND POLE DANCE.

WHEN YOUNG PEOPLE ARE SEEING THAT IN HOLLYWOOD IS SEEN AS LIBERAL, EVEN THOUGH WE KNOW THERE ARE CONSERVATIVE ACTORS AND ACTRESSES, IF THAT WORD IS STILL USED ANYMORE, BUT DOESN'T b ÃÃDON'T YOUNG GIRLS GET A BAD MESSAGE, THE WRONG MESSAGE?

THEIR MESSAGE IS USE TEXT TO EMPOWER YOURSELF.

WELL, IF YOU JUST FLIRTED WITH HARVEY WEINSTEIN, LET'S SAY, THESE WOMEN, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN JOBS OUT OF THEM.

THEY KNEW THAT.

SO HOW ARE YOUNG WOMEN SUPPOSED TO USE SEX AS AN EMPOWERMENT AS OPPOSED TO NOT HAVING SEX AND DRAWING A BRIGHT LINE BETWEEN WORK AND ROMANCE?

>> LOOK, IT'S VERY COMPLICATED.

BUT, YOU KNOW, REALITY IS THAT WOMEN SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO AROUND POLICING EVERYTHING THEY WEAR, EVERYTHING THEY SAY, EVERYTHING THEY DO BECAUSE MEN DECIDE TO USE THEIR POWER OVER THEM AND COMMIT SEXUAL ASSAULT.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, LOOK, I'M NOT GOING TO GO ON A STAGE AND TWERK.

HEAVEN FORBID SHE WE SHOULD SEE THAT.

[LAUGHTER] >> Bonnie: SAME HERE.

>> BUT AT THE SAME TIME IF I DID OR IF I WERE ON A POLE, IT DOES NOT GIVE PERMISSION TO ASSAULT ME.

>> JUST LIKE MEN LIKE VICE PRESIDENT PENCE WILL NOCCO IN A ROOM ALONE WITH A WOMAN, AND PERHAPS I DON'T BLAME HIM, IN THE SAME WAY WOMEN NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT IN THEIR RELATIONSHIPS WITH MEN, THEY NEED TO BE HANDLED.

>> THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT OUR CULTURE NOW IS THAT BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING IS SO HYPER SEXUALIZED, IS ACTUALLY MORE EMPOWERING FOR WOMEN TO BE MORE MODEST AND ALSO MEANT TO BE MORE RESPECTFUL.

I THINK ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE IN THE WORKFORCE, IT'S REFRESHING, QUITE FRANKLY, TO INTERACT WITH MEN AND WOMEN FOR IT TO BE PERFECTLY PROFESSIONAL.

THOSE ARE WHAT WE SHOULD ALL ASPIRING FOR, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN.

>> Bonnie: HOW FAR AWAY FROM THAT ARE WE?

>> WE ARE HERE.

EVERYONE HAS TO KEEP THEIR GUARDS UP, MEN AND WOMEN.

IT'S NOT JUST MEN WHO ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF WOMEN.

THERE ARE WOMEN WHO USE THEIR SEXUALITY TO OVERPOWER -- >> Bonnie: VAST MAJORITY OF CASES.

>> BUT EITHER WAY, WE GO BACK TO HOW DO WE REPRESENT OURSELVES?

CAN WE GET BACK TO PROPER DECORUM?

>> THERE IS I THINK A ROLE FOR ME ALE LEADERS SAYING HEY, WHAT YOU WEAR TO THE CLUB ON SATURDAY NIGHT IS NOT WHAT YOU BRIDGE THE OFFICE.

SADLY IN OUR WORKPLACE TODAY, WE SEE FEWER AND FEWER OF THOSE KINDS OF CONVERSATIONS.

>> Bonnie: LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.

FROM THE WEINSTEIN TRIAL TO CISGENDER HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES SUING TO KEEP TRANSGENDER ATHLETES OUT OF GIRLS SPORTS.

AND THE FAMILIES OF THREE CONNECTICUT GIRLS ARE SUING TO BLOCK TRANSGENDER ATHLETES FROM COMPETING AGAINST THEM.

THEY ARE SUPPORTED BY THE CONSERVATIVE GROUP ALLIANCE DEFENDING FREEDOM, WHICH CLAIMS THAT ALLOWING TRANSGENDER GIRLS IN GIRLS' SPORTS IS UNFAIR AND VIOLATES TITLE IX.

THE ADF HAS BEEN LABELED AS AN ANTI LGBT HATE GROUP BY THE SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER, A CLAIM THE CONSERVATIVE GROUP DISPUTES.

CONNECTICUT SCHOOLS INSIST THAT THEIR POLICY FOLLOWS STATE LAW, WHICH SAYS STUDENTS MUST BE TREATED ACCORDING TO THE GENDER THEY IDENTIFY WITH.

THE LAWSUIT CENTERS AROUND TWO TRANSGENDER SPRINTERS WHO HAVE WON MORE THAN A DOZEN STATE CHAMPIONSHIP RACES SINCE 2017.

THE THREE GIRLS WHO ARE SUING HAVE FINISHED BEHIND THE TRANSGENDER GIRLS AT TIMES, ALTHOUGH NOT ALWAYS.

THE ACLU IS SUPPORTING THE TRANSGENDER GIRLS AND THE CONNECTICUT SCHOOL SYSTEM.

THE ACLU ARGUES THAT TITLE IX PROTECTIONS DO NOT HINGE ON WHETHER SOMEONE HAS XX OR XY CHROMOSOMES.

>> Bonnie: SO ARE THESE GIRLS CORRECT?

>> I THINK THEY ARE CORRECT.

I THINK WE ARE IN A TIME AND PLACE WHERE TITLE IX WAS ESTABLISHED TO CREATE OPPORTUNITIES LIKE FEMALE ATHLETIC SPORTS FOR YOUNG GIRLS AND WOMEN TO PARTICIPATE.

WHEN YOU START TO MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT ANYONE WHO IDENTIFIES AS A GIRL OR WOMAN CAN PARTICIPATE, YOU HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT LIMIT SPORTS ATHLETIC OPPORTUNITIES FOR GIRLS WHO WERE BORN BIOLOGICALLY FEMALE.

AND, YOU KNOW, I SEE b ÃÃSOME PEOPLE SAY THERE IS NO SCIENCE.

THERE IS SCIENCE TO SUPPORT THE IDEA THAT A MALE IS PHYSICALLY STRONGER, TALLER, AND EVEN WITH HORMONE TREATMENTS, YOU STILL CAN OVERCOME SOME OF THOSE NATURAL STRUCTURAL b ¦¦ >> Bonnie: DOESN'T IT DEPEND WHEN THE HORMONE TREATMENTS START, THOUGH?

I MEAN, THERE ARE FIVE-YEAR-OLDS ON HORMONES NOW.

>> WELL, THIS DIFFERENCE NEEDS TO BE UNDERSTOOD MUCH MORE SCIENTIFICALLY THAN WE UNDERSTAND IT TODAY.

BUT THERE IS A GREAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS ISSUE AND ORDINARY SEX DISCRIMINATION ISSUES.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DENOMINATED THEMSELVES THE WAY THEY FEEL AS THE OPPOSITE SEX.

NOTHING HAS CHANGED ABOUT THE MALE CHARACTERISTICS THEY HAVE.

NOW, IF YOU ARE FOR EQUALITY BETWEEN b ¦¦ >> Bonnie: THEY SAY THEY GET WEAKER WHEN THEY ARE ON THE HORMONES THEY SAY THEY GET b ¦¦ >> THIS WAS NOT ABOUT HORMONES.

THIS WAS ABOUT TRANS MEN b ¦¦ >> Bonnie: TRANS WOMEN.

>> TRAINS WOMEN, I'M SORRY, OPERATING AS MEN.

ALL RIGHT.

WHO ARE THEY COMPETING AGAINST?

I'M ASSUMING IF WE GOING TO HORMONES b ¦¦ >> Bonnie: BORN GIRLS.

>> THE OUT, ASSUMING THERE COMPETING AGAINST BORN GIRLS.

I THEREFORE HAVE TO ASSUME.

HERE'S WHERE I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THESE GIRLS ALMOST ALWAYS WILL HAVE LESS IN MUSCULAR ABILITY, AND THAT IS JUST THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN.

I DON'T THINK b ÃÃAND I WILL SAY OF HEARD NOTHING, I HEARD NOTHING IN THE RESPONSE THAT SAYS ANYTHING BUT THIS IS THE WAY THESE PEOPLE HAVE DENOMINATED THEMSELVES, NOTHING ABOUT ANY CHANGE IN THEIR BODIES, NOTHING OF THAT SAYS WHY HAVE THEY WON ALL OF THESE CONTESTS BETWEEN BIOLOGICAL WOMEN?

IF WE WANT TO KEEP TITLE IX, WHERE ARE THEY TRYING TO SEPARATE MEN AND WOMEN IN THE FIRST PLACE?

IF WE WANT TO KEEP TITLE IX LAW AND WIPE OUT THE PHYSICAL DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN, WE ARE GOING TO BE UNFAIR TO WOMEN.

>> RIGHT.

BUT I THINK, DELEGATE NORTON ABOUT THAT, AS A FEMALE ATHLETE MYSELF, TALK ABOUT TRACKS, MATTER OF SECONDS THAT MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.

>> Bonnie: LET'S b ¦¦ >> THE SECOND.

APPARENTLY THESE TWO TRANS WOMEN, GIRLS HAVE PARTICIPATED IN 89 COMPETITIONS, IT BESTED ALL WOMEN IN THE FIELD.

THAT IS THE ISSUE THAT, ESPECIALLY WOMEN IN SPORTS, GIRLS IN SPORTS, IF WE DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS NOW, THIS WILL PROBABLY BE THE LOWEST MARK IN FEMINISM, MARK MY WORDS.

>> Bonnie: ARE YOU GOING TO BE THE ONLY PERSON ON THE PANEL TO DEFEND THE TRANS WOMEN?

>> PROBABLY SO BECAUSE, I MEAN, FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT TRANS WOMEN OVERWHELMING WOMEN SPORTS.

THIS IS REALLY A COUPLE OF HANDFUL OF INSTANCES WHERE THIS HAPPENS.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHETHER WE HAVE INSTANCES OF HORMONE THERAPY THAT IMPACTS PHYSICAL QUALITIES AND ABILITIES AND WE NEED TO KNOW A LOT MORE ABOUT THAT.

BUT I DON'T THINK b ÃÃI THINK GIVEN THE NUMBERS, I DON'T THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL JEOPARDIZE WOMEN'S SPORTS.

I TOO WAS IN IT WOMEN ATHLETE.

WHAT WE HEAR FROM THE REPORTS AS THEY HAVE WON A DOZEN CHAMPIONSHIPS BUT HAVE NOT WON ALL OF THEM.

THEY WON SOME RACES, NOT ALL THE RACES.

SO I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT WILL OVERWHELMING DOMINATE WOMEN'S SPORTS.

>> Bonnie: YOU PLAY BASKETBALL WHEN YOU WERE b ¦¦ >> BASKETBALL, TRACK b Ãà [CROSS TALK]> Bonnie: THE GUYS WERE NOT AS TALL, IF NOT TALLER THAN YOU, MOST OF THE TIME?

>> YEAH.

I HAD OTHER SKILLS.

I PLAYED ON THE FOOTBALL TEAM AS WELL.

I HAD OTHER SKILLS.

BUT THIS IS NOT ABOUT ONE INDIVIDUAL OR OTHER.

IT'S ABOUT SAYING HOW IS IT WE CAN BOTH BALANCE PRESERVING AND PROTECTING WOMEN'S SPORTS AND WOMEN ATHLETES AND AT THE SAME TIME RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE A VERY, VERY TINY MINORITY WHO IDENTIFY b ÃÃBOYS WHO IDENTIFY AS GIRLS AND SOME OF WHOM MAY BE GOING THROUGH HORMONE THERAPY AND WANT TO BE ABLE TO FULLY REALIZE b ¦¦ >> I WANT TO SAY, I KNOW A LOT OF MODERATE TO PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS WHO AGREE WITH THESE GIRLS BECAUSE THEY HAVE HAD CHILDREN b ¦¦ >> WHICH GIRLS?

>> Bonnie: THE GIRLS WITH A LAWSUIT BECAUSE THEY REALLY FEEL IT IS UNFAIR.

AND I SEE IT AS UNFAIR NOT JUST IN SPORTS, MODELING.

I LOVE THE SHOW POSE ON FOX.

I CANNOT WAIT FOR THE NEXT SEASON.

BUT THOSE MEN WHO WERE TRANSGENDERED TO WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL.

BECAUSE THEY ARE MEN, THEIR SIX FOOT TALL.

ONE OF THEM HAS ALREADY BEEN ON THE COVER OF I THINK IT WAS MADEMOISELLE OR ONE OF THE YOUNG WOMEN'S MAGAZINES.

THAT DISPLACED A SPOT THAT WAS FOR A WOMAN.

IF I WHERE A MODEL, I WOULD BE FURIOUS ABOUT THAT.

>> BONNIE, LOOK, THE BIOLOGICAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN HAVE BEEN SCIENTIFICALLY PROVED.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS IS A TERRIBLE BLOW FOR FEMINISM.

AS WE SAY, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN, DONNA, WHERE WE DON'T HAVE VERY MANY OF THEM YET, SO WHAT DOES IT MATTER?

WE WILL ENCOURAGE MORE TO BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN COMPETE THIS WAY, OVERWHELM THE GIRLS, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS NO DISPUTE BETWEEN THE BIOLOGICAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN WITH RESPECT TO STRENGTH AND THE OTHER CHARACTERISTICS.

FEMINISM WILL GO BY THE BOARD IF THAT IS THE WAY WE JUSTIFY WHAT EQUALITY MEANS.

EQUALITY IN EVERY OTHER RESPECT EXCEPT PHYSICAL STRENGTH, WE NEED TO STAND FOR.

BUT TO SAY THERE IS NO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN BIOLOGICALLY IN THE WAY THEY ARE CONSTRUCTED SO THAT MEN ARE STRONGER b ¦¦ >> I THINK YOU'RE EXAGGERATING WHAT I'M SAYING.

I'M NOT SAYING THERE ARE NOT PHYSICAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN, BUT I THINK THERE IS A LOT MORE WE NEED TO KNOW WILL b ÃÃYOU KNOW, IF TRANS WOMEN ARE UNDERGOING SOME CONFORMAL THERAPY OR OTHER b ÃÃ THE PROBABLY IS SOME SCIENCE BEHIND WHAT THEIR MUSCLE STRENGTH IS, WHAT THE CAPACITY IS.

WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THOSE THINGS BEFORE PUTTING A BLANKET RESTRICTION EVEN ON COMPETITION.

>> Bonnie: WHEN THEY DEPEND ON WHEN THEY START HORMONE THERAPY?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT b ¦¦ >> Bonnie: YOUR BONES ARE NOT GOING TO GROW AS BIG AS IF YOU STARTED AT 20.

>> THE MOMENT THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH PERIODS EVERY MONTH, THEN WE WILL TALK.

>> Bonnie: BEHIND THE HEADLINES: BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

WE SPOKE TO THREE LEADING AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN INCLUDING ACTOR STORM REID AT THE NATIONAL DAY OF RACIAL HEALING TO GET THEIR PERSPECTIVE ON HOW WE CAN BRING THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER.

>> La June: THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT WE WORK ON IS WHAT WE CALL STRUCTURAL RACISM.

>> Jamila Lemeieux: WE CAN'T GO ON LIKE THIS.

THIS ISN'T THE WAY THAT WE WANT THIS COUNTRY TO BE.

>> Storm Reid: WE ARE TRYING TO PUSH FORWARD EVERY DAY, THROUGH CIVIC ENGAGEMENT AND EQUITY WORK, THAT WE CAN TRY TO MAKE A CHANGE THROUGH LOVE.

>> Bonnie: JAMILA LEMIEUX, AND STORM REID ARE THREE LEADING AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN.

THOUGH BELONGING TO DIFFERENT GENERATIONS AND WORKING IN DIFFERENT FIELDS, THEY ARE UNITED BY A DESIRE TO UNITE THE COUNTRY AND HEAL DIVISION.

>> SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT IF IT IS IN YOUR HEART TO BE A RACIST, THEN YOU ARE NOT, WHICH WE UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT THEY ARE SYSTEMS THAT WERE CREATED OUT OF RACISM THAT ARE ALIVE AND WELL STILL IN THIS COUNTRY TODAY.

>> Bonnie: ALL THREE ATTENDED THE NATIONAL DAY OF RACIAL HEALING, EVENT HOSTED BY THE WK KELLOGG FOUNDATION.

>> Storm Reid: WE WANTED TO BE A DAY OF HEALING, WHERE PEOPLE COME INTO COMMUNITIES HAND IN HAND, HAVE TOUGH CONVERSATIONS, TELL THEIR TRUTHS, TELL THEIR PERSONAL STORIES AND BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT WHAT CAN WE DO TOGETHER IN THIS COMMUNITY TO CREATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR EVERYONE?

>> Bonnie: PART OF THE WORK THE FOUNDATION PERFORMS IS SOMETHING CALLED A HEALING CIRCLE, DIVERSE GROUPS OF ABOUT 30 PEOPLE COME TOGETHER TO SHARE THEIR STORIES AND TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND ONE ANOTHER.

>> Storm Reid: AND WHEN YOU ARE IN A HEALING CIRCLE, THAT'S THE MOMENT WHERE AN YOU BEGIN TO NOT ONLY REFLECT ON YOUR OWN JOURNEY AND AND REALLY FIND THE CONFIDENCE OF YOURSELF, YOUR OWN STORY AND YOUR JOURNEY, BUT THEN SHARE THAT WITH SOMEONE ELSE, AND THEN CONNECT THE DOTS AROUND ONE HUMANITY.

MAYBE WITH SOMEONE YOU HAVEN'T EVER SAT DOWN WITH, SOMEONE OF A DIFFERENT NATIONALITY, A DIFFERENT RACE.

>> Bonnie: ALL THREE WOMEN ACKNOWLEDGED THATSOMETIMES SHARING THESE TRUTHS BECOMES UNCOMFORTABLE.

>> Jamila Lemeieux: WE DON'T ALWAYS WANT TO TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS WE WANT SOMEONE ELSE TO DO IT.

AND IT'S FAIR TO FEEL THAT WAY.

IT'S HUMAN, RIGHT?

AND THERE ARE FOLKS WHO DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO FEEL ANTAGONIZED, OR BLAMED FOR SOMETHING THAT ISN'T OF THEIR DOING, EVEN IF THEY BENEFIT FROM IT, RIGHT?

BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET BETTER IF WE DON'T GET UNCOMFORTABLE.

>> La June: SOME PEOPLE COME UNWILLINGLY AT THE BEGINNING.

AND THAT'S OKAY.

BECAUSE IT'S A SPACE OF LEARNING FOR EVERYONE, AND I CAN'T b ÃÃEVERYONE WHO HAS PARTICIPATED HAS ENDED UP LEARNING SOMETHING.

>> Storm Reid: WE'RE NOT ALL THE SAME, AND WE'RE NEVER GOING TO BE THE SAME AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO WALK IN THE SAME SHOES AND WE'RE NOT ALL GOING TO BE THE SAME RACE OR THE RELIGION OR GENDER.

THERE'S SO MANY THINGS THAT SEPARATE US BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WE ARE STILL ALL HUMAN.

>> Bonnie: CONGRESSWOMAN EDWARDS, IS THIS THE WAY TO END RACISM?

WILL IT WORK?

IS IT TOO SMALL SCALE?

>> ONE, I DO THINK IT'S SMALL SCALE.

DO I THINK IT'S NECESSARY TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS IN COMMUNITIES AND AMONG PEOPLE IN A WAY THAT PEOPLE CAN UNFAIR THEMSELVES AND BE SAFE?

VERY IMPORTANT.

BUT CHANGING RACISM IS ALL ABOUT CHANGING SYSTEMS AS WELL AS CHANGING CULTURE.

AND WE HAVE TO DO A LOT MORE FROM, YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENT ENTITIES ON DOWN TO CHANGE THE SYSTEMS THAT REINFORCE RACISM.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THE IDEA OF BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER OF DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS IS REALLY GOOD.

THE RESEARCH DEMONSTRATES THAT WHEN PEOPLE VOLUNTARILY GET TO TALK WITH ONE ANOTHER AND INTERACT, THEY START TO CHANGE THEIR PERCEPTIONS.

YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO SYSTEMIC CHANGES, I THINK WE NEED TO START FROM, WELL, WHAT HAVE WE ACCOMPLISHED?

WE HAVE COME VERY FAR IN THIS COUNTRY TODAY.

WE ARE THERE LAWS THAT ARE HOLDING PEOPLE BACK?

YES, THAT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE THOSE.

I THINK AT THE STATE LEVEL, OCCUPATIONAL LICENSES WHOLE PEOPLE OF COLOR BACK IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE IT MAKES IT HARD FOR THEM TO GET INTO VOCATIONS THAT THEY NEED TO.

SO THERE IS ROOM FOR COMMONALITY IN AGREEMENT HERE.

>> WELL, THE NOTION OF PEOPLE TALKING WITH ONE ANOTHER, SO LONG AS THERE IS NO BLAME GAME GOING ON AND HAVING HONEST CONVERSATIONS ABOUT DIFFERENCES AFTER WE HAVE GONE THROUGH PERIODS WHEN LEGAL SEGREGATION IS DEAD, WHEN YOUNG PEOPLE RESPOND TO PEOPLE OF OTHER RACES IN A WAY THAT MY GENERATION DID NOT TO THE EXTENT THAT WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY WHERE THERE IS STILL NOT CONVERSATION BETWEEN BLACK PEOPLE AND WHITE PEOPLE, IF THAT DAY OF HEALING IS PROMOTING THAT, IT'S ALL TOO GOOD.

>> Bonnie: AT THIS POINT, THE SUPREME COURT ELIMINATED BUSING DECADES AGO, BUT PEOPLE STILL EITHER DO THE ECONOMICS OR BY CHOICE, AND I DON'T b ÃÃPROBABLY SOME OF BOTH LIVE IN SEPARATE NEIGHBORHOODS, THEY STILL DO IT.

AND THEY ARE SO FEW PEOPLE OF COLOR IN MY COMMUNITY, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY FORMED A COMMITTEE TO RECRUIT MORE BUYERS OF COLOR.

BUT WHAT DO YOU DO?

WHEN HOUSING IS SEGREGATED, WHAT DO YOU DO?

>> FOR ME, WHAT I DID IS LEFT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, QUITE FRANKLY.

THE MOST SUPPORT I HAVE HAD ARE FROM CONSERVATIVES AND MOST OF THEM ARE CAUCASIAN.

AND THAT'S THE THING.

THERE ARE CERTAIN PEOPLE WHO BENEFIT FROM US BEING DIVIDED BY SKIN COLOR, BY RACE, BY GENDER, BY ETHNICITY, ETC.

I FEEL MORE EMPOWERED AS A BLACK CONSERVATIVE.

WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE OUR COMMONALITY IS, FOR EXAMPLE, OUR PATRIOTISM OR OUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS OR FAITH IN GOD.

AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SORT OF b ÃÃI PERSONALLY FELT, YOU KNOW, IN 2013bää4, I FELT AS IF ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST.

THE MOMENT YOU STEP OUT OF THE PARADIGM, YOU REALIZE b ¦¦ >> THERE ARE PLENTY OF WHITE PEOPLE IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

>> WHAT I'M SAYING b ¦¦ >> SHE LEFT THE MOST DIVERSE PARTY OF THE X TO AN ALL-WHITE PARTY b Ãà [CROSS TALK] >> THE PARTY THAT NOMINATED ME IN 2018 WAS REPUBLICANO THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

>> I'M CONFUSED BECAUSE OF THE TOP OF THE LEADERSHIP ON DOWN, THERE IS NOTHING BUT THEN RACISM SPEWED OUT OF THAT AT THAT PARTY.

BUT THE POINT IS WE DO WORSHIP IN DIFFERENT PLACES.

WE MAY GO TO WORK TOGETHER.

AND SO, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO COME TOGETHER AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE WAY YOU CHANGE THE RATES OF SYSTEMS IN THE COUNTRY.

>> HOW DO YOU?

BOOKS I THINK YOU DO IT BY HAVING, ONE, LEADERSHIP THAT SPEAKS TO THAT AND THE WILLINGNESS OF LEADERS TO MAKE CHANGES BOTH IN LAWS AND IN WORK ENVIRONMENTS.

CHANGING CULTURE TAKES A LOT OF WORK.

THAT WORK BEGINS WITH THE LEADERSHIP, WHETHER A UNIVERSITY OR CORPORATION, INTEGRATING BOARDS, MAKING SURE YOUR SENIOR LEADERSHIP AND SEE SUITES IS MORE REPRESENTATIVE OF DIVERSE COMMUNITIES.

THIS IS HARD WORK.

WE HAVE TO DO IT IN EVERY SECTOR AND HOUSING.

>> Bonnie: AND HOUSING.

HOUSING, HOUSING HOUSING.

THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK, "TO THE CONTRARY," SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

[MUSIC] FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR SEE AN ONLINE EPISODE OF "TO THE CONTRARY," PLEASE VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.